A Beekeeper's Diary

   Home | Current Diary Page | Top | Today | End | Selected Beekeeping Topics | Search HoneyBeeWorld.com   
       Diary Archives - 2017 | 2016 | 2015 | 2014 | 2013 | 2012 | 2011| 2010 | 2009 | 2008 | 2007 | 2005 | 2004 | 2003 | 2002 | 2001 | 2000 |1999      
 My Weather Station | Honey Bee World Forum | HoneyBeeWorld List | Contact me 

Again, from a regular contributor in the mid-US...

Checked most of the local hives near the city today & was very pleased. Some that had no winter protection at all had huge clusters. The ones with a winter cover looked just that much better. Sure we had a dead out & a dink but, all & all, they looked real fine for the date on the calendar & the weather we have had.

The ones that I over fed syrup to last fall are, by far, in the best shape.  Looks to be a wet week I may opt to put on some more candy boards with brood builder mixed in just to see what happens.

We used to do this years ago & had great results. It just may be time to try this again.

Tell us about 'brood builder', if you would...

A Beekeeper's Diary
March 3rd to March 14th, 2000
<< Previous Page                                                                          Next Page >>

Friday March 3, 2000

I've intended to write a diary for some time, and now I've made a start. We'll see how long this inspiration lasts...

I guess you are tired of this subject. 

The president of our bee club asked just yesterday of you, "Does the man never sleep?"

I devoured your research project and when I got to the end I wondered where the rest of it is. I concluded from Eric's data chart that there was no significant difference feeding Fumagilin or not.  Anyway, the issue is currently being debated in Bee-L.  How long are we going to kick the can?  I have nosema from the appearance of some of my overwintering hives and thought it would be a good idea to medicate BeePro™ patties to combat the situation. Now I don't know.  What is your read on all this?  Are you doing any other experimental projects?

Thanks,
 Peter

Well, sometimes I sleep, sometimes I don't.  I average about six hours, I think, but part of that comes after lunch, some days.

As for nosema, I found I have none to speak of, at least at any time we did the tests.  My management tends to minimize stress on the bees, compared to how many operate.

I doubt that adding fumigillan to pollen patties does much good.  I hear that people in NZ got some results using it in sugar dust, but personally, I tend to like the idea of drenching a cluster with a cup of treated thick (50/50 or thicker) syrup in fall (or spring).  The syrup is taken in by the bees and does not run off.  It also goes direct to the guts of the bees.  As for the drug concentration, some suggest a stronger mix than recommended for normal treated syrup, but I think that normal concentration should be fine.  Repeating a week later might be wise, but a single shot should help a lot, and this approach will not result in fumigillan in stored syrup.

As I seldom saw much nosema, I suggest, as with all diseases, that beekeepers actually do a test to see if they have the disease before treating.  Nosema is easy to see, and the test can be fun.  Often dysentery can occur without significant nosema.  Bad stores (acid inverted syrup or contaminated feed) can destroy the digestive tracts in bees.  If that happens, no amount of drug will help..

FWIW, I had five big jars of Fumidil™ ($500 worth) in my freezer for years.  I never needed it, since I do not like to treat for a disease I cannot detect.  Last night, I finally gave it away.  It was stalemated, but, stored in a freezer, it last forever.

Dear Allen,

I have read your "Feeding Syrup to Honey Bees " pages, and need to set up something similar here in Western Australia where once again, due to drought our bees are on hard times!

The problem I have is that the "experts " here say I need a pressure relief valve or bypass valve in the system.

I'm using a 2KVa diesel generator driven 240 volt 1/2 HP electric motor to drive a vane type honey pump. ('Cos that's what I have lying around here).

Since nobody here has fed bees this way before, I'd prefer to defer to your expertise and judgment than that of the well-meaning but inexperienced locals!

Pumptrol® switches here seem to be used extensively for air pressure systems but not much else.

Could you advise what pressure will be required to deliver 67% sucrose syrup through 20 metres of 1 inch hose to the standard unleaded gasoline trigger gun, at ambient temps of 20 to 40 degrees centigrade?

If you have the model number, Type or specs of the appropriate Pumptrol® switch that would be even better!!

Q. Does switching off the pump (automatically via Pumptrol® switch) obviate the need for a pressure relief valve?

Many thanks for your help.

Peter

There are several ways to do the job.  We've used pressure tanks, such as a propane tank, and driven the syrup out with regulated air pressure, and we've used gear pumps driven by DC motors.  Other use a system such as you describe, with a motor or engine running constantly and driving a vane pump.  All work, and each has its advantages.

• 500 or 1000 gallon propane tanks can be used to hold the syrup, and be pressured with compressed air from a tank or compressor.  We used such a system at one point, and some large beekeepers in the US use 1000 gallon propane tanks to dispense syrup.

• No matter what propulsion system we use, we always use a high quality gasoline nozzle, complete with the swivels, but remove the auto-shutoff mechanism.  The nozzle is connected to a 1" gasoline hose by aluminum Camloc™ connectors, and the hose connects to the pump with a similar connector as well, and a quick shutoff valve is located there.  We always turn that valve off when not feeding, to relieve the pressure on the hose and prevent accidents.  Additional sections can be added or subtracted, since they have connectors as well.  Several hoses can be attached to one system at once for feeding large yards, if there is enough capacity.  If the syrup is thin enough due to warm temperatures, a 3/4" hose works just fine, even for runs of 50 feet or more.

• We ultimately chose to build a system using a DC motor that starts and stops, depending on the pressure in the hose, for reasons of silence, compactness, convenience and efficiency.  In that plan, the pump only runs when the nozzle trigger is pulled, and stops when the trigger is released.
  
   A Pumptrol® was used to sense the pressure and activated a DC solenoid (Ford starter type) that controls the heavy current for the DC motor.  A 1/3 to 1 HP motor was used, and drives the pump by a chain, with sprocket reduction of about 6:1.  The motors we used were either starter motors or winch motors, but a nice 12 volt motor can be bought at an electric supply house.  The Pumptrol®  we use is one used for pumps in domestic water systems, but we have found that we have had to jigger the ones we've found to lower the pressure range to below 30 pounds per square inch.

• We have never used a pressure relief, since the control shut the pump off when 30 lbs -- or whatever pressure we set it at -- was reached, however, if you were to choose a continuously running system, a bypass is in order.  The bypass need not be a relief valve, but merely a shunt made of smaller pipe that allows the syrup to bypass when the hose nozzle is shut off.  Cleverly designed, the bypass can allow the pump to agitate the syrup and mix it on the way to the yard, but provide enough pressure to a hose, to dispense the syrup as well.  An adjustable valve can be used to set the amount of bypass, or a pressure relief valve can be used.

Remember, syrup hardens and gums things up.  Never count on anything electrical being 100% reliable when syrup is around.  Small passages in a Pumptrol® or the diaphragm can block up, especially if care is not made to keep it above the syrup level in the design.

Turn off the power when you are not intending to pump syrup, or expect to come out and find it all on the ground some day or be leaving a trail behind you as you drive down the road.

---

From Rich, another perspective...

You people make this syrup pumping game way too tough.

• 3-1/2 HP Briggs engine Cost $200.
• 3/4" bronze gear pump Cost $110.
• 2 pulleys, coupling, shaft, v-belt, etc. $60.
• Relief valve. $55.
• 60 foot pressure hose with nozzle $95.
• Misc. iron, bolts, etc. $25.

Total weight for this set up is about 50 to 55 pounds.  Length is 20 to 24" very easy to pick up & move from the truck to storage or what ever.  We use clear 3/4 EVA spray tubing for both suction & relief lines to & from poly supply tank on the trucks. 

As for our tank farm we use a 5 HP Briggs engine that drives a 1-1/2 honey pump ( Viking molasses pump ) with about a 6:1 reduction ratio. We run the engine at a fast idle with no problems. It takes less that 15 minutes to fill a 200 + gallon tank on the truck.  The plastic spray tubing is held in place with just hose clamps & this makes it a very simple & light weight unit to disconnect & remove from the truck. 500 gallon poly blem tanks are worth about $175. & 1500 gallon are worth $375. Not real tough to spend around $1000 bucks or so & have a real nice system that will hold half a tanker load of syrup.

Rich

Here's the cheap model Honda engine mounted on a blower.  It bolts up in place of a Briggs, runs on half the gas, makes half the noise, and costs the same.

This system is simple and cheap, and easy to build.  The major complaint is that B&S engines can be hard to start, and are noisy and smelly when running.  Using a Honda would be a huge improvement.  The racket is much less, and fuel economy is double, even using the cheap black Honda motors.

In our case, we preferred to have a system that runs only when the trigger is pulled and which can deliver a lot of syrup quickly.  When we were working hives in Spring, we would only need a shot of syrup every five minutes or so, and did not want the noise of a running engine.  Since we were feeding up to 4,500 hives, we spent some money for what we wanted, but for occasional use, and for those who don't mind the noise and smell of a gas engine, this is probably as cheap as you can get.

I'll give Rich the last word.

I can understand the noise & smell deal, but the new " emission " engines really have very little stink to them compared to the old ones from years back. Yes, the Honda engines are a little smoother but are not worth the darn for the near double the cost factor of the Briggs.  (Actually, the black Hondas are priced the same as B&S -- allen).  Most of the fuel tanks on these engine now a days will hold up to a gallon of gas. So they can run all day without a problem. The engine that is on the truck pump now is 8 years old & all that is ever done to it is change the spark plug in the spring & the oil & call it good for the year. If I recall correctly I did change the v-belt & love joy spider last year for the 1st time. We had an electric motor on the tank farm for a couple of years & found the gas engine deal to be less headache. Just my 2 cents worth, Allen.

By the way all of the gas engine we have usually start on the 1st or 2nd pull.

Rich

Good comments. 

---

(This note came later). What kind of relief valve do you use? And, how many hours do you figure your unit has run? Tried to find the one that I use in the Granger web site but had no luck. How many hours has this unit run?????  Countless, 10 years old at least.  New plug in the spring & check the air cleaner and let 'er rip. Change the oil at least in the spring & then in the fall. I did find the cheaper Honda engine for $200. in the Northern catalog.  I will order one to give it a try.  Looks like I can save 8 to 10 pounds of weight also. By the time a man realizes that maybe his father was right, he usually has a son who thinks he's wrong. Charles Wadsworth Who & were in Iowa did you talk to that only had a 5% winter loss.  I would like to call him or E-Mail him.  Brian told me that some of the people who have ads for queens & brood in east Texas posted in the Bee Journal have refunded quite a bit of money to their customers as every thing is so far behind & there is no way they can fill all the orders for Queens & brood. Maple buds are starting to really swell & it should be near 60 today here. We have had well over 2 1/2" of rain in the last 2 weeks & it really soaked in the ground.  Not much run off at all. Got a new dog a few weeks back & can hardly wait to see if he likes to eat bees like the old one does!!!!!!!!!!! Let me know Rich. (I sent him the contact privately)  Still waiting for the details on the relief valve.  I think that was the original question, wasn't it? (This note came later yet). The valve is a Teel brand model #PO-72 or a# PO-73.   Pump is a Teel Model # P-775.  Seems bronze pumps are a better bet than the cast iron ones as I have seen corn syrup set in a cast pump over the winter & leave some nasty holes in the gear bores.  Rich I hope we have answered everyone's questions.

Honey Price:

To use an expression that Don Cherry used to like, it does not take a rocket surgeon to figure out that, if a beekeeper has 1,200 hives and makes 150 lbs, and was getting by okay at 80c, then his gross was $144,000.  Assuming he had at least $30,000 in there for living expenses, then at $1.60, that same beekeeper has that same $30,000 plus another $144,000 (at no extra expense) to live on.  He has 5.8 times more pocket change at $1.60 than at 80c!

Many, rather than saving or reinvesting on repairs and upgrades, are out spending that extra cash, and getting used to fancy living.  If we see a price downturn, many will suffer.

  Canola pollination prices in Southern Alberta are also very good these days, and those with a contract -- if they can get one -- are hedged against a honey price decline.  The problem that many do not see, however, is that pollination has its cycle, too, and I understand that the companies have been altering their contracts to lower or eliminate the payouts if they cut back and do not use the hives they have lined up.

The beekeepers who originally set up the pollination contracts were wise; they could see the risks and investment needed to pollinate.  They made certain that they had continuity, guaranteed by a three year term and minimum payments if all bees were not hired in any given year, or if the pollination project were to end.  Under pressure from the companies, current beekeepers have let that lapse and have agreed -- AFAIK -- to no contract, or reduced protection.  If honey and pollination crash at the same time, this will turn and bite them, and bite hard. 

I can easily see a situation developing similar to what is going on right now in cattle.  Suppliers with locked-in costs, debt and shallow pockets will find themselves at the mercies of large companies with many options and deep pockets.  Even if the large companies do not intentionally abuse their position, they will wind up crushing the beekeeper.

---

Historically, this phenomenon has happened repeatedly to small mills in the lumber business.  During good times, large companies encouraged their suppliers to expand and take on debt, buying, even contracting all they could get, but when the markets contracted, the small suppliers were at the mercy of their customers, and orders were cancelled, and contracts renegotiated under duress.  The large firms declined to buy the small suppliers' products, or bought only in limited quantity after using their own supplies, ensuring their own bottom line.  Under the pressure of debt and no income, the small firms folded and were bought by the large mills on their own terms, at distress prices, and the small companies were often even grateful. 

Although some large companies are opportunistic and deliberately pursue such an outcome, others are not even aware that they are doing so.  I doubt that the seed companies or their reps have anything but the best of intent, but I can clearly see that they are manipulating the beekeepers to give up their parachutes, and, although the firms are not intentionally threatening the beekeepers, many felt they had no choice and gave up their protection without complaint.

---

When, during the last downturn in the canola seed market, the company we were signed with decided to pressure beekeepers to alter their contracts -- to the beekeepers' detriment -- we saw the hand writing on the wall.  We examined our options and decided to sell our existing contract back to the company while it was still worth something.  We asked for the payout stipulated in our contract.  They granted it, and paid the amount stipulated.  We jumped and did well, but others, when canola pollination next cuts back, if there is no market for honey, may find they are outside the airplane with no parachute.

---

Canola pollination is like a drug, in that there is a difficult withdrawal period.  Beekeepers on canola pollination get used to a large advance payment every year, and full payment by year-end, but honey producers get payment up to a year after the crop year ends.  That means beekeepers switching from pollination to honey production can experience an 18 month period without income, and if the payout is no longer in the agreement, this could well bankrupt some of my friends if pollination dries up and honey is not selling at the time. 

One of the reasons for poor quality in stock from the Southern hemisphere, I have always thought, is the use of dry ice on the pallet of bees when shipped by air.  Dry ice is carbon dioxide -- CO_2, and  CO₂ has permanent toxic effects on bees.  I have mentioned this high and low, and never gotten anywhere.  I mentioned it to Medhat, and I think he may actually do something about it.

CO₂ is used routinely as an anesthetic in artificial insemination of queens, but very carefully, and with the knowledge that this will have lasting effects on the queen.   I am no expert on this, but perhaps the effect on queens is desirable, and is different from the effect on workers.  Used on workers, CO₂ instantly ages them, and makes them skip some stages in their progression of activities, resulting in early foraging.  CO₂ use may account for package hives that seem to be made up of old bees, and which lose all, or nearly all, their adult bees before the brood hatches, and also the pathetic brood rearing I have observed in these imports at times.  CO₂ may also partially account for the bad smell and pathetic condition of the bees in packages I have seen when I picked them up at an airport.

It's been raining here but I have checked most of my yards.  We took 400 colonies into winter.  Our death loss is going to be around 5%.  I haven't had survival this good since the mites arrived.

What's your guess as to white honey inventories in beekeeper's warehouses across the prairies?  I understand Argentina has had a poor white honey crop.  Since I wrote you last, the price has stayed at $1.60 but I've "heard" of higher prices offered.  I'm feeling that there ought to be a rally soon as packers scramble to get white honey which they need for blending.  I don't think there is a great deal to be had.  Those who I knew to have honey a month ago, have sold everything.  Maybe now that the packers have bought at a lower price they can afford to pay more to get what they require.  This season's honey prices will be a whole different ballgame.

Gilles

I don't know.  I wonder what others may add here?  There is always the Mid-US Hotline, but it has been a lot less active since the price flattened out and fell a bit.  January 30 is the last HL report.  They say that the last known is SD white at $1.45.  Extra white amber at $1.40, etc... Worried about ultrafiltered.  I tried to leave a message, but the timer cut me off.

I hear the Canadian Co-ops have lowered their estimate for the 2003 crop to $1.75 from $2.00 and that Billy Bee was phoning around trying to buy at $1.55.   I also know of several loads of white that went recently at $1.65 with delayed payment.

Mostly, nothing much is moving.  Buyers and sellers are waiting to see what happens next.  Some buyers are sitting on some high priced honey and my guess is that the Co-ops are back to using their free honey to beat up the market and beggar their competition.  More on that later.

SUNSHINE VILLAGE WILL BE CLOSED
TODAY DUE TO MECHANICAL FAILURE
CAUSED BY THE POWER OUTAGE.

OUR MAINTENANCE TEAM IS WORKING
AROUND THE CLOCK TO GET THINGS
FIXED. WE WILL CONTINUE TO UPDATE
THE WEBSITE ( http://www.skibanff.com )
WITH MORE INFORMATION.

In my opinion, right now -- March 8th --  is too early, except, perhaps in Southern Alberta, for pollen patties.  In my experience, pollen patties do no good at all until about three weeks -- one brood cycle -- before a reliable source of pollen is available in the field.  That date varies with region, and from year to year, but is after April 20th around here, so I recommend starting patties around the end of March in our area. 

Putting patties on earlier than three weeks before reliable natural pollen simply results in greater feed consumption, stress on colonies, and can even result in a premature buildup and collapse!

Once patties are placed on the hives, a beekeeper must return weekly, or as often as necessary  to replenish the patties, before the previous ones are completely consumed, or the result can be more harm than good!   Moreover, don't put on patties unless you have enough patties to keep feeding weekly until at least May 1st or unless your bees have many frames of natural pollen in them (We never see that here).  Additional warning: For those who use a higher pollen content than I recommend (4%), your patties will disappear faster, and you will have to go around more often to keep the bees from running out of pollen and tearing out brood.

In their eagerness to build up the colonies early, many beekeepers are going to damage their hives, unless they understand that

1. Supplements are not a complete replacement for natural feed, and should be fed for one month max in absence of natural supplies, and

2. Protein feeding must be continued without fail, once begun or brood may be torn out, and hives stressed enough to bring other problems.

3. Protein feeding will stimulate brood rearing, and raising one frame of brood requires one frame of honey or syrup.  Once brood rearing starts up in earnest, syrup feeding may suddenly become necessary. 
   
   Unless you are set up to feed syrup in Spring, it pays to be careful how much brood you stimulate.  Although barrel feeding works well in Fall, it is very unreliable and very uneven in the spring.  It can plug some colonies while others starve.

Bees normally build up only as nature supplies food.  If you choose to stimulate your hives early with syrup and/or patties, you have taken on the job of keeping them supplied until nature takes over.  Their needs will be much higher than if they were never stimulated.  Failing to provide a steady supply of syrup (if needed) and patties can mean starvation, malnutrition, and spring dwindling.

> The ones we had purchased are very, very short of feed.  I am picking up some feeders from the co-op and am going to have to get some syrup in ASAP.  What I was wondering , the patties from Global (your recipe) has quite a lot of sugar, will this help out a hive in the above situation?

Yes.  You are sorta screwed anyhow, if the bees are close to staving, and this will be a salvage operation, unless you are very lucky.  Bees that starve, even a little bit, usually mean a lot of work for disappointing returns.

If you are going to feed syrup, then go ahead and give them some patties, too.  If they have a shortage of honey, then likely they have consumed all their pollen, since the pollen is usually protected under honey until the honey is used. The way they do it is like a time-release capsule.  That's another reason that is is good to have a good honey reserve in wintering hives and never let them get close to starvation.

I was just recommending to avoid kick-starting happy, well-fed hives too early, but if your hives are going to have to be fed syrup, they might as well have patties, and the sugar in them will ensure they get some carbohydrate.  The patties will also tell you if any are queenless or in serious trouble, since they will not touch the patty.  Be sure to place the patty right over the centre of the cluster.

Just don't let them run out of feed.

> Also , I understand and appreciate your concerns about stimulating too early, however, my thoughts (limited due to lack of years) was that I  wanted to stimulate, about 1 brood cycle, with the objective being more, new, workers to work the first flow.

Yup. One brood cycle before reliable new pollen is the rule I use.   If you go several cycles, and there is no real pollen in the frames, or it is poor, there is the risk that the bees will deplete the reserves in their own bodies to feed the brood and the result will be lots of malnourished bees.  We are better off with fewer, well-nourished bees, since bees that have always had good nourishment are smarter, more productive, raise more and healthier young, and live longer.

> In this area, with the abundant Pollen, nectar available from the Alder, varieties of Willow and Poplars, I had always thought this to be a good goal to strive for. If I keep feed on, do not take the wraps off until early May, it should lead to stronger and healthier hive?

That has been my experience. That is also why we developed a system where we could keep the hives wrapped until late, but open them anytime, all year long.

> I had purchased a Kodak Easy Share camera and did take some photos of the Hives and some of Bees working dry BeePro™ , but have not yet been able to  transfer into my computer, when I do I will send a photo to you . It is interesting how they work the BeePro, pellets , about 2/3 Natural Pollen size, are on their legs, I'm sure this natural stimulation must be of some benefit to the colony.

I think so, too.  (The pictures here came in a later email).

Sorry I missed you, but now that we've started our paddy round, emails in the evening are the only reliable way to communicate.

Your thoughts and discussions are always interesting. Thanks for the kudos, and here's a few thoughts on our pollen paddy program at Honeybear.

It's correct that we only apply one paddy, about 1.25 to 1.5 pounds, using mostly soya flour, about 10% pollen (that's been creeping up each year), in addition to syrup and some fumagillin and oxytet. (Tylosin is waiting for complete results from Beaverlodge and an MRL.)

When we first started paddies back in the 80's, one was enough to bring us to natural pollen flows that began always by my birthday, which happens to be April 9. In the 90's and this millennium, that hasn't happened often, as we experience cooler Aprils in north-central Alberta. However, the bees are always fine, partly because we also put out about 1/2 pound per hive soya and/or bee pro in powder form for foraging bees. In addition, perhaps our 'solar wrap' helps a bit, with warmer hives allowing the bees to access their own pollen from under the honey just as you described, as the pollen paddy disappears. Generally, our colonies are still quite heavy in April, given good fall 'buffet' feeding and conservation due to the wrap perhaps.

We do manage our indoor and outdoor singles differently, giving them their paddy first week of April, and also upping the pollen content to about 20%. These hives also receive some syrup, barrel feeding and sometimes a second paddy, for the stronger colonies. The singles' reserves of pollen are less than doubles, as the queen kept the brood chamber full of brood into September, beyond the timing of late pollen flows for the most part.

Anyway, good to be back in the hives, with excellent results for the first day, with 27 dead out of 548 opened.

Barrie T.

We started with more soy than we now use, but have increased the yeast content to 50% of the yeast/soy portion, even though yeast is almost double the cost, since the beekeepers in California and Hawaii use yeast and sugar only.   One of the things we have been planning to try to determine in the nutrition study is whether yeast or soy, or a combination are the best.

I'm also not certain that the oxytet or fumigillan accomplish much, if anything, in the paddy form, but Barrie  is convinced there is value in that approach, and he is a very successful beekeeper. 

There is room for difference of opinion in many beekeeping practices, and, until there is proof one way or the other, one person's idea is as good as another's -- as long as they are equally successful.   More complex approaches are worth examining for their value, however, since they may add unnecessary cost and effort.  Our success in beekeeping, in a poor crop area,  was based on simplifying every process to the most basic level possible, and reducing costs to a minimum.  That way we are were able to thrive, even on low honey prices and what most beekeepers would consider poor crops.  Our biggest crop was 180 pounds, and our average was somewhere a little over 100 pounds.  That number became hard to calculate, since we had a number of years on pollination, and that drops the yields as well.