Styrofoam Boxes

[Countryboy]

My neighbor has about 20 of these styrofoam nucs. He overwintered bees in them last year and liked them real well. I talked to him this evening and asked him if he had put any mouse screens on, or if he had problems with mice. He said that mice could get in, but none did. He said he didn't do anything to make sure the mice were kept out.

I'm sure that if a mouse wanted in, it could chew a hole with no problem, but it sounds like maybe mice aren't attracted to the styrofoam nucs. At this point I'm not planning on putting 1/2 inch hardware cloth on any of them. (Now watch - I'll have mouse nests in all of them next spring.)

[cam bishop]

Another method of making styrofoam nucs that I found interesting.

http://s1082.photobucket.com/albums/j36 ... am%20Nucs/

[Countryboy]

That seems like quite a lot of work, for a minimal amount of benefit. If you compare the time and effort they put into these two nucs, compared to buying two $25 styrofoam nucs - which is the better value? Appearances can be deceiving too, but it doesn't appear to be very durable. It looks like you would have to baby it to keep it from falling apart.

I think you would be better off to take a standard wood nuc box, and laminate styrofoam onto the outside of it, rather than how they did it. Then again, I like simplicity and don't see the point in making a job any harder than I have to.

The ventilated inner cover looks interesting though.

[Allen Dick]

I was impressed by the effort that went into documenting the process, but I would never go through the bother.

It all comes down in my mind to whether you want to be a beekeeper or a carpenter.

For some, their time is not worth anything, or making things keeps them out of the local bar in the evening.

Some have a complete workshop and like to use it. Others don 't.

For many, buying proven commercial products and concentrating on the management of their bees makes sense.

I've done it both ways.

[cam bishop]

I thought it was an interesting method of making nucs... I wonder how they will hold up.

I have several home made 5 frame supers from styrofoam, but am less enthusiastic about them now... The EPS nucs are holding up quite well, no ant problems and no chewing noticeable. however, my test will be how well they winter... I've already had moisture issues and the bees seem to beard much more on the styrofoam than the wood nucs. Like today when it's about 68°F and raining. Seems like high humidity causes the bearding, since I didn't see it when it was in the 90's last week.

[Countryboy]

For me, it's not about better management of my bees - it's about better management of me. I used to waste enormous amounts of time doing low value things because I hated to hire someone to do something that I could do myself, or I hated buying something I could make myself. As I got older (and wiser) I realized I was better off hiring someone else to do the piddly stuff, letting me do more productive things.

I still have the tools and the know-how to do things for myself, but I stop and ask myself what the true cost is before I begin. The poor man pays twice is a good saying to learn. It is not about price - it is about value. (I guess my ego is big enough that I don't need to make something just for the personal pride of making it.)

I've done it both ways.

I have too. When I didn't have much, and it seemed like I could never get ahead, I did everything myself. Once I started concentrating on how I was the most productive, and hiring/buying the lower value stuff, I suddenly stopped struggling to get ahead, and began to obtain a little financial security.

I took a correspondence course on successful investing and money management. I think one of the best lessons I learned from it was that (at that time) 4% of people earned $100K+ a year - so do you get advice from that 4%, or do you get financial advice from the 96% who don't know how to make the big bucks? I started building friendships with millionaires, and stopped running around with the guys whose future was at the bottom of a 12 pack. I learned a lot about the business side of beekeeping from people who know nothing about bees, but are successful small business owners, oil men, grain farmers, or real estate agents. They taught me the business side of business, and I just applied beekeeping, eBaying, etc to good business sense.

Now, back to the topic at hand...

This is my first year of overwintering styrofoam nucs. What target weight do people normally shoot for going into winter? My neighbor didn't weigh his last year - he just gave them a cup of syrup a week.

The styrofoam nuc weighs 5 pounds. Deep frames of honey weigh about 6 pounds. The outside frames may be a little fatter and hold a little extra weight.

With wood nucs, I would shoot for 40-45 pounds, and the box weighs close to 15 pounds.

Should I shoot for 30-35 pounds for the styrofoam nucs? Since they should stay a little warmer, how much more active are the bees in a styrofoam nuc in winter, and how much more do they eat?

IIRC, Allen's friends the Meijers overwintered styrofoam nucs in a barn, by filling the nuc up half way with syrup and then plugging the entrance. Did they try to hit a target weight, or did they just fly by the seat of their pants and fill them all the same?

[peterdbk]

Up north, using an economical wintering bee (Carniolan or Russian), I believe 10 lbs of honey is more than enough to get a small colony in an insulated hive from last reliable pollen in the fall to first pollen in the spring. I like to have more than 10 lbs in the nuc to cover for delays in feeding in the spring. You need to make sure you do not overfeed in the fall because the nuc needs empty comb in the cluster core.

In a large hive, a small colony may lose contact with the 10 lbs of honey part way through the winter and starve. The nice thing about a nuc box is the bees cannot get far away from the food.

[Allen Dick]

I haven't remembered to ask Joe yet, but if one full comb weighs six pounds, then in a five frame nuc, I would think that two combs at minimum would be desirable and more like 3-1/2 to four would be ideal where we are in Alberta.

I recorded how much a strong hive 3 or 4 storey hive lost from October to mid-April and I seem to recall 150 lbs. I'll have to check that, though.

[Countryboy]

I emailed Joe Latshaw, and this is his reply.

To be honest, I have not weighed the nucs. I shoot for the outside frames to be pretty full, the next two frames in to be about half to 3/4 full and the middle frame to be maybe half full or a little less, so the bees have some place to cluster. I do not like them too heavy as this does not give the bees any room to cluster.

Joe


If we go with 6 pounds of honey per frame, that sounds about like 22-25 pounds of honey to me. Add a 5 pound nuc box, and I get an approximate target weight of 27-30 pounds total.

[Allen Dick]

I don't know if everyone saw this:

More at http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/articles/EPS.htm

They should be for sale soon. The price is not yet decided.

[Biermann]

This is interesting.

I noticed in my first year that the bees seem to stay away from the long side of the super, probably because of the uneven temperature, cold at night and hot in the day when the sun hits it.

Here my plan for next year:

1. three more hives to have a nice 'pallet size cluster'
2. Install upper entrance on all when the flow starts
3. glue 2" Styrofoam or equivalent on the long side of brood boxes and supers on two hives. This will keep the handles in the short side still accessible for lifting.
4. start extracting earlier, probably early July by pulling capped center frames and moving the partially filled frames in. With four hives it should give 2-3 frames per hive every 2 weeks = 8-12 frames to extract.

Part of my post (if not the majority) has nothing to do with the Styrofoam Boxes, but I de=id not want to start a new thread.

Joerg