Honey filtering
- Biermann
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- Location: Vauxhall, Alberta
Re: Honey filtering
Hello, me again.
I have a small room in my garage 4' x 6', 7' high setup with a air conditioning unit (that I only use for keeping my spuds from Oct.- June at 5°C. Insulation is 8" XPS. Since one wall is outside and we can get it cold I have a small (1200W) heater in the room. This is my controller, mounted outside so I can see what is happening inside http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2X-Digital-STC-1 ... 9i9pJMO_NQ
Hysteresis can be setup to your liking and it all works well.
In the summer it becomes my honey prep. room, the capped frames go in for 24-48 hours at 37°C and the extraction goes like making rabbits, quick.
Since extraction in my little humble and one man operation is slow, the pail with the two screens sits right under the honey valve and all goes very nice.
I wait with bottling or filling jars until I have a good amount and use my alu turkey cooker that has a bottom side welded valve for filling. If needed, I can just give a very small amount of heat to get the last amount out, but normally only have the honey heated in my special room at 37°C.
I like to remove as much of the 'curdes', 'floodies' etc. as I can, after the motto, the eye eats. Appearance is a big factor, I believe, and why would I present something that looks like crap. The hippies in Vauxhall and area are few and between and food has to look nice to sell it.
Cheers, Joerg
I have a small room in my garage 4' x 6', 7' high setup with a air conditioning unit (that I only use for keeping my spuds from Oct.- June at 5°C. Insulation is 8" XPS. Since one wall is outside and we can get it cold I have a small (1200W) heater in the room. This is my controller, mounted outside so I can see what is happening inside http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2X-Digital-STC-1 ... 9i9pJMO_NQ
Hysteresis can be setup to your liking and it all works well.
In the summer it becomes my honey prep. room, the capped frames go in for 24-48 hours at 37°C and the extraction goes like making rabbits, quick.
Since extraction in my little humble and one man operation is slow, the pail with the two screens sits right under the honey valve and all goes very nice.
I wait with bottling or filling jars until I have a good amount and use my alu turkey cooker that has a bottom side welded valve for filling. If needed, I can just give a very small amount of heat to get the last amount out, but normally only have the honey heated in my special room at 37°C.
I like to remove as much of the 'curdes', 'floodies' etc. as I can, after the motto, the eye eats. Appearance is a big factor, I believe, and why would I present something that looks like crap. The hippies in Vauxhall and area are few and between and food has to look nice to sell it.
Cheers, Joerg
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Re: Honey filtering
Nice setup. Most admirable. Thanks for sharing. Pictures?
I ordered the controller just now. Looks perfect.
As for appearance of settled honey, assuming that the extraction process did not contaminate the honey badly, the settled product after skimming is virtually indistinguishable from screened honey.
If it is, the extracting process and what is being extracted should be reexamined. Honey in the comb contains no wax, very little pollen, no nails, no pieces of bees and pupae, no leaves, no rocks, no flies, no wood, no wire...
I'm writing here for the hobbyist with a hive or two with no budget and no experience. Commercial extracting necessarily deals with a wide range of combs and conditions, but a hobbyist can control the inputs and the process. Some simply stand a comb on a cookie sheet, flatten comb with a spoon and collect the perfect, clean honey that runs down, then put the comb back into the hive. Others us a hot knife that does not make flecks.
It is the beekeeper's choice. Avoid contamination in handling or deal with the crap after.
Different strokes.
I ordered the controller just now. Looks perfect.
I considered using that word, but want to keep it simple. Basically, hysteresis refers to the fact that the temperature response in a space does not necessarily directly correlate to the heat input at that moment as it depends on how quickly the heat arrives at the sensor (location of control and source), the state of the contents and may overshoot with an excessively powerful heat source or a change of state of the contents. This is most apparent when, as mentioned earlier, melting honey, with too large a heater, or heat arriving slowly at the sensor.Hysteresis can be setup to your liking and it all works well.
As for appearance of settled honey, assuming that the extraction process did not contaminate the honey badly, the settled product after skimming is virtually indistinguishable from screened honey.
If it is, the extracting process and what is being extracted should be reexamined. Honey in the comb contains no wax, very little pollen, no nails, no pieces of bees and pupae, no leaves, no rocks, no flies, no wood, no wire...
I'm writing here for the hobbyist with a hive or two with no budget and no experience. Commercial extracting necessarily deals with a wide range of combs and conditions, but a hobbyist can control the inputs and the process. Some simply stand a comb on a cookie sheet, flatten comb with a spoon and collect the perfect, clean honey that runs down, then put the comb back into the hive. Others us a hot knife that does not make flecks.
It is the beekeeper's choice. Avoid contamination in handling or deal with the crap after.
Different strokes.
Allen Dick, RR#1 Swalwell, Alberta, Canada T0M 1Y0
51° 33'39.64"N 113°18'52.45"W
http://www.honeybeeworld.com/Allen%27s%20Beehives.kmz
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- Biermann
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Re: Honey filtering
Hi Allen,
I will insert some pictures tonight if I have the time.
With 'hysteresis' I meant the cut-out for aircon. and cut-in for heating as well as delays for the aircon. etc.
I use a comb like this to uncap, the electric knife I did not like much, to much stink and monkeying around, but one gets some wax pieces (no nails yet) and some 'slimy' wax, it is not pupa or such, I watch for it and leave frames in the hive that do have eggs or larva.
I was going to extract on Saturday, but had to pickup equipment in Blackie and the weather was not nice to work the bees, so it is now next weekend.
Cheers, Joerg
I will insert some pictures tonight if I have the time.
With 'hysteresis' I meant the cut-out for aircon. and cut-in for heating as well as delays for the aircon. etc.
I use a comb like this to uncap, the electric knife I did not like much, to much stink and monkeying around, but one gets some wax pieces (no nails yet) and some 'slimy' wax, it is not pupa or such, I watch for it and leave frames in the hive that do have eggs or larva.
I was going to extract on Saturday, but had to pickup equipment in Blackie and the weather was not nice to work the bees, so it is now next weekend.
Cheers, Joerg
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Re: Honey filtering
Good picture. Thanks.
I use the scratcher the other side up to lightly scratch the cells. As long as there is a single slit in the capping, the cell empties in the extractor.
Scratchers gum up and get warm after a few combs, and they work best when cold, so I also use several scratchers, and keep the scratchers that are not in my hand in a can of cold water (like an ice cream scoop) rotating through the supply as each plugs up.
Hmm. (Thinking...) Maybe I should have been using ice in the water. Too soon old and too late smart.
No matter how the scratcher is used, though, wax bits get in the honey. They are finer than from a knife, but should float up in a hot room and be skimmed off.
There is more wax, though, if the combs have to be leveled with the scratchers. That is where knives are superior.
Personally, I prefer to extract before the combs are capped if the honey is cured. Easy to tell -- shake the comb or extract a few and test.
hys·ter·e·sis: the phenomenon in which the value of a physical property lags behind changes in the effect causing it, as for instance when magnetic induction lags behind the magnetizing force.
Basically, you and I are both talking about overshoot from the sensor not being in exact sync with the heat/cooling source and also the heat inertia in the objects being heated or cooled. Example: a furnace or air conditioner continues to move heat for moments after the sensor signals to stop, so the sensor has to anticipate that and send the signal early.
I use the scratcher the other side up to lightly scratch the cells. As long as there is a single slit in the capping, the cell empties in the extractor.
Scratchers gum up and get warm after a few combs, and they work best when cold, so I also use several scratchers, and keep the scratchers that are not in my hand in a can of cold water (like an ice cream scoop) rotating through the supply as each plugs up.
Hmm. (Thinking...) Maybe I should have been using ice in the water. Too soon old and too late smart.
No matter how the scratcher is used, though, wax bits get in the honey. They are finer than from a knife, but should float up in a hot room and be skimmed off.
There is more wax, though, if the combs have to be leveled with the scratchers. That is where knives are superior.
Personally, I prefer to extract before the combs are capped if the honey is cured. Easy to tell -- shake the comb or extract a few and test.
hys·ter·e·sis: the phenomenon in which the value of a physical property lags behind changes in the effect causing it, as for instance when magnetic induction lags behind the magnetizing force.
Basically, you and I are both talking about overshoot from the sensor not being in exact sync with the heat/cooling source and also the heat inertia in the objects being heated or cooled. Example: a furnace or air conditioner continues to move heat for moments after the sensor signals to stop, so the sensor has to anticipate that and send the signal early.
Allen Dick, RR#1 Swalwell, Alberta, Canada T0M 1Y0
51° 33'39.64"N 113°18'52.45"W
http://www.honeybeeworld.com/Allen%27s%20Beehives.kmz
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51° 33'39.64"N 113°18'52.45"W
http://www.honeybeeworld.com/Allen%27s%20Beehives.kmz
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- Jiminycric
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Re: Honey filtering
All neat advice, and experiences! For me, once I get a few more hives under my belt (and a couple more locations), I had thought of a enclosed trailer with a heater and thermostat. Basically it would have everything in it, extractor, pails, jars, etc. so that a person could just pull up, and extract.
Is it wise to leave the frames sit for a bit before extracting? Or can a guy extract as soon as its own it of the hive?
Jiminycric
Is it wise to leave the frames sit for a bit before extracting? Or can a guy extract as soon as its own it of the hive?
Jiminycric
- Jiminycric
Strathmore, Alberta
Strathmore, Alberta
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Re: Honey filtering
I extracted 110 hives in a school bus with a four-frame reversible extractor. I pulled the honey, passed the box in and a girl extracted the combs and and passed the box back out, and I put it back on a hive.Is it wise to leave the frames sit for a bit before extracting? Or can a guy extract as soon as its own it of the hive?
Coming off the hive, the combs are a perfect temperature to extract.
Allen Dick, RR#1 Swalwell, Alberta, Canada T0M 1Y0
51° 33'39.64"N 113°18'52.45"W
http://www.honeybeeworld.com/Allen%27s%20Beehives.kmz
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51° 33'39.64"N 113°18'52.45"W
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- Jiminycric
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Re: Honey filtering
That's similar to what I did a couple weekends ago. I had pulled out 6 frames at a time, then put into a cooler (was a perfect size for the frame to sit in) and put the lid on. Brought it to a place where I had the extractor set up. Extracted, then repeat. I regret that the bees had been quite disturbed by the time I was done 18 frames. I did like extracting as soon as it was pulled.Allen Dick wrote: Coming off the hive, the combs are a perfect temperature to extract.
- Jiminycric
Strathmore, Alberta
Strathmore, Alberta
- Biermann
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Re: Honey filtering
Allen, checked this tonight and the temperature set at 37° 'overshoots' by 0.2°, I think that is negligible.
This is my control box Cheers, Joerg
This is my control box Cheers, Joerg
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Re: Honey filtering
I agree. For these purposes, +/-a few degrees does not matter. What would matter would be a big overshoot.
That control might be good enough for a queen incubator where temperature is more critical.
That control might be good enough for a queen incubator where temperature is more critical.
Allen Dick, RR#1 Swalwell, Alberta, Canada T0M 1Y0
51° 33'39.64"N 113°18'52.45"W
http://www.honeybeeworld.com/Allen%27s%20Beehives.kmz
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Re: Honey filtering
Yeah. Electric knives overshoot and burn cocoons and honey.the electric knife I did not like much, to much stink and monkeying around,
A better choice is a steam knife, which can be heated with a pressure cooker on a hot plate.
Steam gives instant heat with a temperature limited to 212F.
Allen Dick, RR#1 Swalwell, Alberta, Canada T0M 1Y0
51° 33'39.64"N 113°18'52.45"W
http://www.honeybeeworld.com/Allen%27s%20Beehives.kmz
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- karen
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Re: Honey filtering
I saw a flow hive at a friends place, http://www.charlohoney.com/, if your ever in Cahrlo, New Brunswick I recommend a visit. It is a great place that educates the general public about honey bees. One frame produced 2 quarts of honey. The bees totally ignored the open honey since there is a good nectar flow right now.
No filtering but as you can see the honey has to settle, lots of air bubbles.
No filtering but as you can see the honey has to settle, lots of air bubbles.
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- Biermann
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Re: Honey filtering
Hi Karen,
The flow hive is being discussed in many forums and I will not add to all the interesting comments, just like to see them for 10-15 years in operation. In my experience all 'new' things work well, it is after several years working with them we find all the setbacks. But again I will not comment.
For me and my short experience with frames, the capped honey frames become a kind of inventory warehouse, the bees look after them and I don't need to be acting immediately. The honey is conditioned to ~16% moisture and is also at a level were it does not need special thoughts.
Let's keep watching the flow hive and see what is left in 5 or 10 years.
Cheers, Joerg
The flow hive is being discussed in many forums and I will not add to all the interesting comments, just like to see them for 10-15 years in operation. In my experience all 'new' things work well, it is after several years working with them we find all the setbacks. But again I will not comment.
For me and my short experience with frames, the capped honey frames become a kind of inventory warehouse, the bees look after them and I don't need to be acting immediately. The honey is conditioned to ~16% moisture and is also at a level were it does not need special thoughts.
Let's keep watching the flow hive and see what is left in 5 or 10 years.
Cheers, Joerg