Hive splitting

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Jiminycric
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Hive splitting

Unread post by Jiminycric »

Hey all! I'm currently trying to find the bes time to do a hive split. I don't want to do it too late in the year to avoid any losses, but would like to do it soon. Any advice or comments welcome! My hive is just east of Calgary near Chestermere.

Thanks,
- Jiminycric
Strathmore, Alberta
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Biermann
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Re: Hive splitting

Unread post by Biermann »

Hello Jim,

I seem to remember that your hive is from April. Sounds to soon to split this year. They will not build two strong hives in one year. Rather wait till 17, split in mid to late May.

Cheers, Joerg
Allen Dick
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Re: Hive splitting

Unread post by Allen Dick »

It is getting late to split in this region. Some years late splits do well, but other years they fail to winter. Mid-July is the cut-off, and earlier is better.
Allen Dick, RR#1 Swalwell, Alberta, Canada T0M 1Y0
51° 33'39.64"N 113°18'52.45"W
http://www.honeybeeworld.com/Allen%27s%20Beehives.kmz
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Jiminycric
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Re: Hive splitting

Unread post by Jiminycric »

Yes, I did start here this April, and my hive has absolutely flourished. Not sure what I did right or if it's just a fluke. I am hoping to post a pic, but it's too large at the moment. Basically, I have 3 deeps of brood (I have to take a really close look at them here to see what all going on) one deep of honey they are working on, and drawing out comb on a med box. My fear is the amount of drone cells that I seen yesterday (July 14) is meaning a swarm forming... Again I still need to do a more in depth look.
- Jiminycric
Strathmore, Alberta
Allen Dick
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Re: Hive splitting

Unread post by Allen Dick »

Drone cells don't mean swarming, but queen cells generally do. Strong hives naturally want to raise drones.

It is getting a bit late for swarming, but late swarms do happen.
Allen Dick, RR#1 Swalwell, Alberta, Canada T0M 1Y0
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Jiminycric
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Re: Hive splitting

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Here's a pic of the hive,
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- Jiminycric
Strathmore, Alberta
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cgybees
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Re: Hive splitting

Unread post by cgybees »

Allen Dick wrote:Drone cells don't mean swarming, but queen cells generally do. Strong hives naturally want to raise drones.

It is getting a bit late for swarming, but late swarms do happen.
This year seems particularly high for late swarms, and a lot of 'typical bee stuff' seems delayed by a couple weeks - I've seen a good dozen swarm reports in various local forums. The oddball weather may be a contributing factor.
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Jiminycric
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Re: Hive splitting

Unread post by Jiminycric »

cgybees wrote:
This year seems particularly high for late swarms, and a lot of 'typical bee stuff' seems delayed by a couple weeks - I've seen a good dozen swarm reports in various local forums. The oddball weather may be a contributing factor.
I've been waiting for warmer sunny days to get right into the hive to see what's all going on. This last week and a bit have been cooler and rainy - and only been looking in the upper supers and leaving the majority of the brood be. I wish I had a few more pics of the inside to post here, maybe get a better feel for it.

- Jiminycric
- Jiminycric
Strathmore, Alberta
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Jiminycric
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Re: Hive splitting

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Well, dove into the hive today, haha my bees were not happy for me doing so. They are happily being bees - and no signs of queen cells. I am trying a late split - so fingers crossed! Are there any advice for doing a late split?
- Jiminycric
Strathmore, Alberta
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Biermann
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Re: Hive splitting

Unread post by Biermann »

Hello Jim,

can I answer with questions?

Are the three supers full of honey? At least 2/3?

If your bees did not get that job done by now, why split? Just leave this hive through the winter and split next year late May. This way you can take the honey now, let the bees gather more with the same box configuration and you can extract again in late August.

Doing a split now would give you two weak hives to go in to winter. It also gives the risk of queening the second hive. If you go for natural re-queening. If you introduce a queen it may work, but you want get new bees before mid August if all works as planned.

Cheers, Joerg
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Jiminycric
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Re: Hive splitting

Unread post by Jiminycric »

Basically I have 1/2 deep box of honey (other half has brood in it), one full one (not capped), and they are drawing out comb on the upper red medium. I had hoped to have at least one super that was capped to extract here in July, so they could be working on filling it back up this year.
Biermann wrote:Hello Jim,

can I answer with questions?

Are the three supers full of honey? At least 2/3?

If your bees did not get that job done by now, why split? Just leave this hive through the winter and split next year late May. This way you can take the honey now, let the bees gather more with the same box configuration and you can extract again in late August.

Doing a split now would give you two weak hives to go in to winter. It also gives the risk of queening the second hive. If you go for natural re-queening. If you introduce a queen it may work, but you want get new bees before mid August if all works as planned.

Cheers, Joerg
- Jiminycric
Strathmore, Alberta
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Biermann
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Re: Hive splitting

Unread post by Biermann »

Hm, You could, if you really wanted to, take the 1. super with the brood and the 2nd and start your new hive with it, make sure the queen is in B1 or B2. Then introduce a bought queen and you are going.

Check B1 if it is worker or drone brood, if you end up with all drone, you are not much ahead, except for a lot of lazy bums to feed, good chance it is drone brood.

Leave the red medium on the first hive to fill.

I have some brood in B1 of my three hives, because I don't like queen excluders, just for that very fact that the bees and queen have more living-room space if it is required. With excluders, the swarm is pre-programmed. My humble bee philosophy. Come mid August, the bees are all back in B1 & B2 and S1 & S2 are with honey.

Good luck,

Joerg

BTW: I had my single hive go totally wild in late May with a swarm, collected the swarm but it never wanted to do anything and I introduced a bought queen in June. The initial hive deteriorated too and I finally combined all boxes with three other hives because it was brood-less. Last weekend, I extracted 58lbs honey from three boxes because the bees are switching now to Buckwheat and I wanted my Alfalfa honey not mixed with it. I extract every two weeks.
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Jiminycric
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Re: Hive splitting

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I had taken off the B3 (half and half) and separated it on Sunday, but with your advice on the queen thing, I do not have an extra to put in. So today, I returned the box today to the main hive. I would say I have about a week and both S1 and S2 will be capped. I will be riding this one hive out this year - and split here this next year and have new queens ordered up. Haha I wish i had gotten more bees this spring, but I got lucky with the bees I got.

I also got to see some new bees emerge today too (well I think so).
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- Jiminycric
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Biermann
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Re: Hive splitting

Unread post by Biermann »

Hi Jim,

very nice picture! Very lucky!

I think you made the right decision. My impression in year two is that year one was easy, it only can go forward, year two brings nothing but challenges.

Cheers, Joerg
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Jiminycric
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Re: Hive splitting

Unread post by Jiminycric »

Year two will bring in at least 2-3 more hives. Hoping to have a couple set up near Rimbey, AB - and track the two locations to see if there are any differences.

Just got to make sure I order any extra queens at the right time.

Jiminycric
- Jiminycric
Strathmore, Alberta
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