Laying Workers, Adding Eggs or Cells, Introducing Queens...

[karen]

Every year I have beginners contacting me for queens that have laying workers in their hive. They don't realize that a worker that is laying has a normal worker life and she has left the hive to forage and knows her way back. Most think shaking the bees out will get rid of "the laying worker" they don't know there are many workers laying and they will find their way back to the hive.
These people want to save their hives, they only have 1 or 2 hives.
So other than telling them to put a frame of open brood in the hive and do a very slow release with the new queen what do I tell them? If I really want to save the hive I stick in a queen cell. The bees always accept the queen cell. For some, they are too far away from me to get a queen cell and/or they do not know any other beekeepers. Does anyone have a method of introducing a queen that they have had success with? I need a few scenarios I can tell people whose hives are in this situation and shaking out the bees and picking up the equipment is not what they want to hear.

[karen]

This was so different than anything I have ever read I had to share it.
"The third method is the simplest method of them all and it’s the one I use all the time.
That’s not to say it works every time but for me it has worked 99% of the time and the time it didn’t I believe it was my fault. It is better to do this late in the day but can be done anytime.
Again, you must have a queen available. Watch the front of your hive and you will notice that the majority of the bees are coming and going mostly from one side or the other of the entrance way. Holding the queen cage in your hand begin spitting on the queen, yes I said spit. Spit on her until she is completely lathered in spit. Open the queen cage and allow her to slither into the hive on the opposite side of the entrance from where the bees are coming and going. Attract as little attention as possible. Once the queen is inside the bees will begin to clean her and as more and more bees clean the more it allows the queen’s pheromone to be released. The more pheromone released the more bees accept her as their queen. The attending bees will find the laying worker and kill her. Wait three or four days then inspect the hive for the queen or multiple eggs in a cell."

Resource is here http://www.yorkcountybeekeepers.org/fil ... anford.pdf

[Allen Dick]

Well, I seldom, if ever, see laying workers. Maybe I am just not observant, but I assume that by the time a hive gets to that point, it is pretty well hopeless, with aged bees and no young bees.

Maybe I never see laying workers because when I open the hive, I know it is only good for shaking out or combining and don't waste time with the brood frames beyond a quick glance for anything capped, AFB or some other nasty.

What to do if there is just one hive and it is queenless and with laying workers? Up here in the north, with a short season, the most merciful thing for both you and the bees is to combine or shake out. Either way, the viable bees will find a home and the others go to the happy hunting ground.

If the bees look bad -- greasy or otherwise ill or mite eaten -- neither of the above is the answer and probably smothering with a garbage bag is the best solution, rather than adding them to other hives.

The frame of open brood is always a good solution for any queenless hive, and a cell is always worth a try.

Nobody should have just one hive, though. It is unnatural.

[karen]

Nobody should have just one hive, though. It is unnatural.

I agree beekeeping is easier with several hives.

This beekeeper is in South Carolina, I guess every one in the US is out of queens so he is having me ship one from Maine. The season is probably long enough to try something, he really wants to save the hive. He has 2 new hives, this is his first year.

This is something I deal with frequently as a queen seller. Beginners get laying worker hives, my second or third one this week. The weeks are starting to run together, I am happy to be so busy. I have only had two laying worker hives in my time as a beekeeper. Both times I added a queen cell and it took, they both were caught early and the hives were not a huge mess.

You have to admit, spitting on the queen is a bit different....

[Allen Dick]

You have to admit, spitting on the queen is a bit different....

It's a variation on a theme. Some spray vanilla water on the queen and the bees to give them a common scent and have them licking one another, Some just run the queen in the door. Dee Lusby and Tony lalonde both talk about it, as do others. It's no big deal, if you know what you are doing. I've done it and placed queens side-by-side on combs to watch. No fighting.

Just as beekeepers 'just know' when to combine hives and move frames of bees and brood between hives and when not to, beekeepers 'just know' when the bees will accept a queen and when they won't, but we proceed anyhow because our options are limited.

Mid-day when a good flow is on, bees are all busy working, and there are lots of young bees in the hives, Chances are a fresh mated queen will be accepted with little or no challenge by the surrounding bees

On a day when bees are confined, stores are short, and there is little pressing work in the hive, and especially if most or all the bees are old -- and maybe the 'new' queen has been caged for weeks, queen introduction is trickier.

When queens are hard to get and cost $30, we tend to be under time pressure and that reduces our ability to wait for the ideal day to do the deed. We proceed regardless of what the bees and the environment tell us, and we take our lumps as a result.

[Countryboy]

The attending bees will find the laying worker and kill her. Wait three or four days then inspect the hive for the queen or multiple eggs in a cell."

IMO, that statement right there is enough to consider the whole story to be bogus. There is more than one laying worker. There are many laying workers. The laying workers will outnumber the attendants in the cage.

Yes, it will work if you add a frame of open brood every week until they raise a new queen. The pheromones from the open brood are what stop the workers from laying, not the queen pheromones. However, by the time you add 2 or 3 frames of brood to save the hive, you have almost no bees left and the hive is weak. You have slowly added the resources of what would have been a nuc, but you don't have a nuc strength hive.

Other than shaking out and then combining boxes, the only sure fire way I know to save a laying worker hive is to remove 3 or 4 brood frames and then insert a nuc with a laying queen. Problem solved. If you have to make up a nuc first and introduce a new queen, then fine. Do that, and once the queen is accepted and laying, then stick that nuc in the laying worker hive.

About the only time I ever see laying workers is in queen mating nucs if a queen doesn't get mated. I don't graft cells every 2 weeks, so sometimes mating nucs may sit a month or so and I sometimes find laying workers in a nuc. I just shake the bees off and use the frames elsewhere.

[Allen Dick]

Yeah, I realize the reason I never see laying workers is that the instant I see scattered drone brood, that box goes onto the nearest hive that could use some more room. I don't even look further than to scan superficially for signs of AFB -- capped cells among empty comb, scale, melted larvae.

The mention of mating nucs reminded me, though. I did actually see them there sometimes, because I actually looked more closely.