Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

General Discussion of Diary Posts and Questions on Beekeeping Matters
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karen
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

Unread post by karen »

Rather than expect people to remember details, maybe we need to be ready to provide a list of YouTube videos worth watching.
I am finding a large percent of the new beekeepers retires. So remembering details... that can be a problem. There are a few, at a bee club meetings, when I see them walking up to me I know it is going to be a long conversation. I know I will be repeating myself to get it to stick in their head. Probably not so much the age factoring in as it is all so new. I find many times they have no clue because I use beekeeping words they never have heard of like shim or they call every box a super and I don't. They will say something like my super has a small amount of brood in it. I say you could use a queen excluder to keep her out of there and give the brood a chance to emerge before you extract. They say I thought I shouldn't extract my supers where the brood is. It will dawn on me they are calling the brood box a super. Sometimes the conversation isn't that fast because it takes me a while to understand what they are telling/asking me. They are wondering if the queen is doing her job because the brood pattern is small but to me it sounds like the queen is up in the honey supers. Communication is a tough one.

With videos they could watch something many times to get it to sink in but they will have questions that need to be answered. They would have to watch the videos ahead of time, write the questions down and then have a question and answer period with the presenter.
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To Understand any Subject, First Understand the Definitions

Unread post by Allen Dick »

Over the years, I have learned that as the first step to understanding any subject, no matter how difficult, one must learn the definitions -- the jargon. I've also found in some cases that this is all there is to understanding the subject as well as many, if not most of its practitioners.

Without an understanding of the terminology, misunderstandings are a certainty. I recall when I was young and went to speak to a bank manager. When he spoke of equity, he meant "the value of a piece of property (such as a house) after any debts that remain to be paid for it". When I heard "equity", I heard, "fairness or justice in the way people are treated". No wonder that conversation went nowhere.

Another time I was speaking with a government representative and he spoke of rationalization of the industry. He meant eliminating the weak businesses. I heard "the cognitive process of making something seem consistent with or based on reason".

In learning the definitions, one has to understand how the concepts these words represent relate to one another. I recall when I was young adult, my aunt who taught at a teachers' college asked me to mark some second year final papers for her. They were the sort that can be marked with a mask. No reading or understanding required. Just count the "X"s showing through holes in the mask (and glance to make sure there was only one "X" per question).

I decided to write the exam first, marked my own, and scored 75%. I'd have had close to 100% if I understood the jargon that was central to the questions I could not answer. Some of the students who had been studying two years ranked below me. Maybe they did not get the jargon either?

So there we are, a good topic, or a good intro to any talk: Beekeeping Jargon.

I wonder how long that segment would take to present? I'm guessing it would just be review for some groups, but the forty minutes for others.

One difficulty might be regional variations on hive configurations and terminology.
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karen
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

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A while ago I made a vocabulary list and posted it on my web site. I ran out of steam and stopped adding to it. May be we can add some more words.

I have it shared on Google drive at this link and made it so anyone that has this link can add to it. Let's see what we can come up with.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VEn ... sp=sharing
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

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Last week I spoke at a new bee club. No one in the club has had bees more than 3 years. They asked me to speak on value added products from the hive, wax, honey and pollen. At the end of the presentation there was a question and answer period. Someone asked me how I checked for mites and I told them an alcohol wash. We went on to other questions and then a new beekeeper said he was confused on how to wash bees. I told him about using a jar with a screen top. I explained how to make the jar and we talked a bit but I could tell he wasn't getting it. For a while we went back and forth I couldn't figure out what he was getting at and then I got it. He thought I was bathing the bees and releasing them. He took wash as in washing a dog to rid it of fleas. The terminology truly makes it a lot harder to communicate when it is all so new to some. You can have beekeepers that have had bees 4 days or beekeepers that have had bees 40 years. How are you supposed to make a presentation interesting for them all? You’re either over the head of the beginner or putting the old timer asleep.

I have had bees a long time. Right now I am trying to improve my success rate on over wintering nucs. If I saw a presentation offered on that topic I would probably attend hoping to pick up a tidbit of information I could use in my yard. I think when beekeepers with many years’ experience attend a presentation they are just looking for one more tool to add to their tool box. They are not expecting a whole chest of shiny new tools. I find I like to know 3 or 4 ways to do things since Mother Nature is so fickle, some years I try this other years I need to do that. An example is this fall. We have had the never ending fall. The flow ended two weeks earlier than normal and it has been warm. The bees are active, plowing through their food. I will be feeding candy boards all winter. Anything I can learn/do to make my job easier and my bees live is a good thing.
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

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With so many new beekeepers there is a flood of master beekeepers produced by EAS and other programs. There are 7 masters in my state most have had bees 5 years. We have talked about the experienced beekeepers and/or professionals giving lectures to bee groups. Now we have some "master beekeepers" giving lectures on things they have only read about. The title master gives the idea they are masters at their trade. An example is a master beekeeper speaking about small scale queen production when they have never raised a queen.

So how does a club vet their speakers? If you where scouting speakers for your bee club what are some of the things you would ask, do, to vet your speakers? Is it ok for the presenter to speak on something they have learned but not practiced? (I am assuming you all understand what I mean by vetting. I know we all come from different places.)
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

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I'm very particular who I go to listen to. I've wasted too much time listening to drivel that I know is incorrect. Some bee clubs are far more a social gathering than a "bee talk" place. Also, many speakers rehash old lectures all the time. Very disappointing to drive 50 -100 miles to get that. I tend to not go anymore.
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

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This is a most interesting discussion. I think it is time we came up with a new slant on what should take place at beekeeper meetings. Maybe old-style presentations are obsolete due to competition from YouTube and discussion groups.

What would be the best use of this opportunity for information interchange? Obviously, a chance to see supplies and tools first-hand is primary, but often considered a secondary aspect of meetings.

The national meetings generally get new material every year, and generally the main sessions are high quality, but even there, the small sessions can be repetitious or speculative. I recall one main session at the ABF in Orlando being amazingly speculative and would imagine it has probably been fully discredited by now.

I think the problem is that those who have to find speakers look at the job as simply filling a slot and many are not qualified to assess the value of presentations or are shy about demanding some input into what is being presented. They choose a well-known name or a friend of a board member and assume that all will be well.

Is there a better way to select speakers and make sure the topics are high-quality?
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

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Is there a better way to select speakers and make sure the topics are high-quality?
First thing that should be asked IMO, "Have you presented this material before, if so when and where" then that info should be presented to the members BEFORE the speaking engagement. I drove many miles to hear a speaker on a very important topic assuming it would be new material. The same presentation was available on the web and was 4 years old and had not been updated. This really makes one not want to go to meetings or presentations. Also I think clubs should avoid authors trying to sell books and making presentations.

Best meeting I ever attended was headed by Medhat and David Miksa. Lots of new info and practical stuff. I would fly or dive quite a way for presentations like that one. {I had to pay and drive a long way for this but it was absolutely worth it!]
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

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Best meeting I ever attended was headed by Medhat and David Miksa. Lots of new info and practical stuff.
Was it a canned presentation or Q&A?
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

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Both speakers gave a short presentation and then took questions from the audience. Since it was a paid attendance there were only a few beginner questions and most were good questions that elicited good responses.
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

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When I saw my talk was over the heads of the audience, I switched to Q&A around the same topic. That allowed the audience to set the level and direction of discussion.

It went well, but a speaker doing this has to be able to deal with members of the audience who want to derail the questions or go on at length. It is easy to control discussion politely -- after all the audience expects you to do so -- but many speakers are intimidated and can't say , "See me afterwards", or "We'll get to that shortly"...

At the beginning of Q&A, it is wise to set some rules like, "Please limit your question to three sentences", and "Please use the mic".

The speaker should also repeat the questions, and paraphrase if they are vague or oblique. Doing so also provides an opportunity to tweak the question a bit :wink: as in ,"I think you are asking (insert your own favourite similar, but sensible question)". (Don't wait for a reply to that suggestion unless you really want it.)

In Q&A, the speaker should limit any one response to a few minutes at most to allow more discussion and allow the audience to indicate if they wish to pursue the line of thought. Personally, I will allow some ancillary questions from an intelligent questioner if appropriate, or change the subject and move on if the topic is worn out.

I watch the audience constantly for indications of interest or boredom and don't hesitate to call on audience members I know will have something to add. It shows on their faces.

If you know the audience members, you can also preferentially take questions from people you know will ask intelligent ones and maybe pitch you a slow one over the plate that you can slam out of the park.

When I am in the audience, I often do that for speakers I know who have something they would like to say, but as professionals did not want to bring up themselves -- topics like Small Cell, Treatment-free, etc...
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

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Allen,

I don't think the videos/internet can replace hands-on in total. I think a combination of the two will be the best.

Lets say your are doing a program on making nucs. Michael Palmer has some informational videos. But, for a new beekeeper, having boxes and frames to move about will add to a better understanding. Move combs from a brrod box to a nuc box. Talk about planting a queen cell or a caged queen. There is a tactile part to beekeeping that helps to build understanding and confidence.

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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

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Tom, you bring up a very good point. 75% or 80% of the population are object oriented. It sometimes seems that most presenters fall into the 20% or 25% that are idea oriented people. So they never really understand how to connect with the object oriented people.

A good case in point is Don Kuchenmeister, the Fat Beeman on YouTube. He is immensely popular...and he is an object oriented person. The people love him. He is able to really connect with a lot of people. But for someone idea oriented, they may be left scratching their heads wondering why anyone would watch his videos.
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

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75% or 80% of the population are object oriented.
Excellent point. As I was mentioned before, a trade show, where people get to actually see and touch the various items available for use and discuss their application is an very essential aspect of the larger conferences. Smaller meetings often do not attract much in the way of displays. Some of us take along various objects to show when going to local events, but not to more distant events.

In my lifetime, presentations have gone from talks with no visual aids or with overhead projections and/or slides to the present where PowerPoint is ubiquitous and almost mandatory. PP can be a very useful tool, a gimmick, or a crutch, and unfortunately can make a really lame presentation appear quite acceptable.
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

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Yes, having equipment to show that pertains to your talk really helps. Showing how with physical objects sticks in the brain so much better than showing how with a series of photos. I find after the talk people always come up to the prop table to touch and look.

Last June I had six 5 frame nucs that needed to be 20 frame hives by the time pumpkins bloomed, which gave them about 3-4 weeks to grow. When they went into 10 frame boxes I split them into two boxes and used Snelgrove boards to so I could put a queen in each box. After two weeks I used queen excluders to keep the queens apart. It worked wonderfully, the hives where booming. I am going to speak at a club meeting about this and planned to bring the equipment with me. Beginners probably have never seen a Snelgrove board, they probably have never made a nuc either. I think showing the equipment I used will shed more light on how it worked over using all photos.

My other thought is why the club wants me to talk about this. The average backyard beekeeper doesn't have extra queens sitting around so making two queen systems would be a bit hard for them. They probably do not pollinate either so the need to have X amount of bees in a box by a certain time isn't to important. So I am going to suggest it for building up hives for the fall flow. So sometimes it's not just the talk, it is taking what your asked to speak about and having it apply to someone with two hives in their yard.
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

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Back when I worked for Extension experiential learning was a hot topic. I think that is still true. Being able to put hands on things adds so much. Take introducing a new queen. We can write and talk about it all we want but, let someone go through the motions with empty combs and an empty queen cage and their confidence grows.

When doing PAT training during the winter we would go in the shop and spray patterns on the concrete floor. Farmers quickly got see spray patterns, gaps, overlap, etc.

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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

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I decided to offer a microscopy class this winter. I put out feelers and have had a very good response. The response as I expected has been from all experienced beekeepers. It's different than all the other beekeeping topics offered around here which are always about management. So what can be offered as a speaker that is different? Beekeeping has so many topics but sometimes they are so redundant.
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

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I have been thinking this topic over and have a thought or two. This may not direct address the immediately previous post, but maybe we will get some insight into that as well.

The standard meeting format is to have a well-known speaker or speakers lined up and they show up and give whatever talk they have prepared. That talk may be fairly new, or a presentation given many times before. The talk may be simply a recitation, or it may be at least partly interactive, with questions and answers taken.

This made sense years ago when people did not travel as much or have access to the information sources we have at our fingertips (literally) today, but these days, many of us are realizing that this approach is outdated and not hitting the target.

The question, then, is how to design presentations that address the needs of present-day audiences and leave them excited even if they have heard the speaker before a time or two. Personally, I never miss a talk by Larry Connor, and it seems to me that his presentations are interactive. Can't recall, but that is how I remember them. Seems he draws the audience in.

I think the day of the canned presentation is past and what audiences want is to have their own concerns addressed in real time by an acknowledged expert. That means, in my mind at least, that presenters need to have some flexibility, be able to change directions at the drop of a hat.

Each presenter could have a series of short presentations cued up and jump to whatever seems to tickle the audience and decide whether taking questions is the best format if the audience seems to want to pick the presenter's brains.

There are risks in taking question, but if the presenter is good at handling an audience, that should not be an issue, especially if ground rues are laid out in advance. I mentioned some ground rules to avoid the pitfalls in a previous post.

Postscript: I realize now that Dewey had this figured out when he presented at the BCHPA and quizzed the audience on pictures he showed of brood frames. At the time, even though it was something that appealed to all experience levels, I figured it was a waste of his vast talents at the time. I also wondered why Marla would fly across the continent to give the same talk (as far as I could tell) that she has many times before and which, I assume is pretty much available in the web.
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

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I was thinking about topics for speakers last night. My thoughts are back to management.

Could a talk be given just on putting on supers? I can't say I have attended a talk on how to super a hive. I get a lot of questions about it from beekeepers, before and during the nectar flow there is a lot of confusion about it. I meet people who have had bees for years and still add one super at a time. They do not realize how much room wet nectar takes up or that the bees need the room to regulate the temperature. It could be a topic that would interest beekeepers no matter the amount of time they have into keeping bees. How many to put on at the start of the flow? How to put on a super of foundation? Where to add supers? Above, below, why and when would you do either? How to keep the queen out of supers? Plastic verses wax foundation. Many are running all the same size equipment; medium boxes are the choice around here. So you can get into rotating old combs up for honey and giving the queen new comb. Does it affect the color and taste of honey? How the bee’s winter over on the new comb, new comb in the extractor. When will bees make wax and when they won't also is a supering topic.

Many of the new beekeepers start out with bees to save them. But even if you want them for pets there is a degree of management and supering is part of it to prevent swarming. There others that have their bees for honey so supering is important, do it right you get a better crop. Then there are the old timers who just like to pick your brain about how you do it and compare it to their way.

Supering is something everyone does no matter how long they have had bees or what equipment they have. Even the Warre and topbar beeks need to consider when to give the bees space so they would get something out of the talk too.
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

Unread post by Allen Dick »

True. Supering is a big topic with a lot of 'if this then that if not then this' sort of logic, plus guessing where we are in the season and how long it will last.

Could supering make a 40-minute presentation without getting too involved and recursive or degenerating? Good question. The subject is contentious and full of traps IMO. A speaker does not want to get caught up in contradictions. The rule is to leave them laughing and wanting more, not confused.

I suppose if there are photos at hand, a good presentation could be developed, but, without them, words can be ambiguous and imprecise, and there is the problem that even seasoned beekeepers do not know or agree on definitions and may therefore visualize something entirely different from what is being suggested without clear illustrations or demos with real boxes.

I'm coming to think the trick is to have several 12-minute talks up your sleeve and see how on each takes and what the audience response is.
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