Politics and Beekeeping

General Discussion of Diary Posts and Questions on Beekeeping Matters
Post Reply
User avatar
Countryboy
Forum Regular
Posts: 511
Joined: November 8th, 2010, 9:37 pm
Location: Central Ohio
Contact:

Politics and Beekeeping

Unread post by Countryboy » July 8th, 2017, 5:33 am

Note from moderator:

This thread is split off from viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1911#p6745 which was running off-topic. It seems to be drawing people in to participate, so I am going to let it run with the caveat that anyone reading it gets what he/she deserves if he or she decides to take any of it personally.

So far this thread is quite polite and I like it that way, but even if it escalates unto a flame war, which I hope it won't, I'll let it run until it gets too nasty or verges on hate speech. It is my policy not to censor or change anyone's words, but there are limits to everything and I hope I don't have to start.

It is here for your education and enjoyment. Remember nobody has to read it and nobody has to get involved. If you do, expect some disagreement.

Carry on...
...............................................................................................................
I'm just going to point out scientificbeekeeping.com as the exception here.
Why should it be an exception?

Please understand that not everyone in the beekeeping community is a Randy Oliver fan, myself included. I consider Randy Oliver to be one of the most damaging individuals to the beekeeping community. Like academia, Randy can't stop at being curious and doing research, but he has to advocate and engage in activism promoting horrible ideas.

Randy Oliver is like Donald Trump. He has no core values. His morals are all messed up. This results in wild erratic thinking. Randy Oliver doesn't believe people are smart enough to make their own decisions. The fact that Randy Oliver is an EPA propagandist and government apologist should be enough to alert anyone to the fallacy of paying attention to him.

Randy Oliver vacillates between promoting socialism and fascism, but he is always working towards bigger government. These are very destructive political views that has always oppressed society. They never involve win-win situations, and you must have win-win situations if you want to improve society.

The Holy Bible teaches that voluntary charity and helping others is good, but those who beg for money are always portrayed as being evil and sinful. Whether or not someone believes in the Christian religion is irrelevant to recognizing that there is merit in some teachings. The fact that Randy Oliver begs for money for doing research is a big red flag. (If it was really important to him, he would pay for it out of his own pocket. And if he can't afford it, it means it isn't important enough to research, or it means he wasted prior research money on worthless research that was not economically beneficial. If the research was really important to others, they would pay him to access his research findings. Or treat it as an investment, and folks could invest in his research. However, folks would stop investing if his research was not profitable. These are proven, win-win business models.)

Randy doesn't understand economics, and believes forcing other people to subsidize worthless research is a good thing, simply because that aligns with his own personal, political agenda. If something is worth researching (and worth is determined by economic merit.) there will be a potential financial reward as a result of the research. Future research projects should be able to be self-funding if the research is done on things that have economic merit. The moment when the money runs out, that is a sign of bad management and doing research on the wrong things. The money was wasted. There is a saying that you don't throw good money after bad. You don't keep investing money into a project that keeps losing money.

ScientificBeekeeping.com should NOT be called ScientificBeekeeping. It should be called Political Activism Beekeeping Under the Guise of "Science". Then, maybe folks would recognize his work for what it really is.
B. Farmer Honey
Central Ohio

User avatar
Countryboy
Forum Regular
Posts: 511
Joined: November 8th, 2010, 9:37 pm
Location: Central Ohio
Contact:

Re: How do you run your hives?

Unread post by Countryboy » July 10th, 2017, 9:33 pm

He was self-financed until people began asking him to research things for them and travel to share his findings and it seemed reasonable to allow people to contribute.
What is reasonable about socialism? (From each according to their ability, and to each according to their needs.)

The reasonable thing for him to have done when folks approached him asking him to do research for them would be to charge them a set price for his efforts. If they were unwilling to pay the cost, then that research was not "worth it" to them, and should not be researched. If they were willing to put their money where their mouth is, then they would be entitled to the findings.

Randy is very big on the EPA and encouraging folks to contact legislators (fascism). If it were up to me, the EPA would be abolished, and I don't believe legislators should involve themselves with beekeeping.

Part of Randy's problem is that he has drank the BS kool-aid so many beekeepers are drunk upon. No one wants to admit a very inconvenient truth.

Who owns the free-flying bees?

When you answer that question, Randy's environmental propaganda falls apart.

Beekeepers want to call free-flying bees their bees. They're not. They're God's bees.
Beekeepers own their hives and the contents of their hives. They do not own the free-flying bees.
Landowners have RIGHTS. Beekeepers have no right for their bees to forage on land the beekeeper does not own. Even if a court were to say that a beekeeper had some kind of claim to free-flying bees, those bees could only visit another's property by privilege, and the beekeeper's bees would have no right to those lands.
The landowner's RIGHTS trump a beekeeper's privilege.

Personally, I don't believe a beekeeper has ANY say in what agricultural chemicals a landowner uses on their own land. My bees aren't going to forage those crops, because the only bees that are my bees are the bees on the inside of a hive. God's bees may go visit those crops, and God's bees may bring back potentially toxic chemicals to my hive. However, since they are not my bees, I have no standing before the law to complain about the farmer's chemicals. God may have standing to complain about the farmer, and while I may have standing to sue God because his bees brought chemicals into my hive, God is immune from man's courts so I have no lawful redress. Any legal action a beekeeper brings because of agricultural chemicals should be dismissed for Failure to State a Claim for Which Relief Can Be Granted.

I'm a beekeeper. I love bees.
But beekeepers DON'T have a right to be successful beekeepers, or the right to a successful career as a beekeeper. You don't have a right to bee forage on other's lands, free of chemicals you don't like. You don't own their land, and their rights trump beekeeper complaints.
B. Farmer Honey
Central Ohio

User avatar
BDT123
Forum Regular
Posts: 125
Joined: December 3rd, 2016, 6:47 pm
Location: Drayton Valley, AB

Re: How do you run your hives?

Unread post by BDT123 » July 14th, 2017, 10:18 pm

CB, sorry but we (North of 60) are pretty much all socialists by your definition, apparently.
You can have my Medicare when you pry my cold, dead fingers off it!
Really though, there are so many ways to run countries, counties, apiaries, bee clubs, etc. ad nauseum, that we should look at the magnificent diversity it offers. Lots of different folks doing lots of different things is a blessing. The more divergent and diverse, the better. The incredible robustness of diversity is what allows all biological processes to move, to prevail.
I'm really sorry that you think Dan was in any way a threat or deficit to bee keeping. As a neophyte, we should be offering considered advice to him. Hell, you and BBK gave me advice when it was obvious I was a Newb.
I think you have to realize that most of us 'foreigners', Ozzies, Canucks, Kiwis, etc, have a slightly different background than you folks in the US of A.
We don't grind as hard against the spending of tax dollars, although we don't much like it. If it's Bee Research, better that than a new sculpture in downtown Calgary.
This item seems to have inflamed some deep passion in you, and I hope you can move on from this.
Let's get back to talking bees on this forum, and not politics.
My very best regards to you,
Brian

User avatar
Countryboy
Forum Regular
Posts: 511
Joined: November 8th, 2010, 9:37 pm
Location: Central Ohio
Contact:

Re: How do you run your hives?

Unread post by Countryboy » July 16th, 2017, 1:32 pm

CB, sorry but we (North of 60) are pretty much all socialists by your definition, apparently.
Actually, I consider it to be more of fascism, (private ownership of property, with government regulations) but with socialist ideology thrown in.
You can have my Medicare when you pry my cold, dead fingers off it!
I don't want your Medicare. But if subsidized medical care is so important to you, that sounds an awful lot like someone who wants to live a lifestyle they can't afford and don't deserve.

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money to spend.
Really though, there are so many ways to run countries, counties, apiaries, bee clubs, etc. ad nauseum, that we should look at the magnificent diversity it offers.
What are we supposed to be looking at? The failure and collapse every time socialism or fascism has ever been tried? What is so good about the diversity, when the end result is the same? Oppressed people, a lowered standard of living, and eventually collapse.
Lots of different folks doing lots of different things is a blessing.
The devil is in the details. Just because people do things differently does not mean it is a benefit. A lot of times, it is just a repeat of stupid nonsense that could be avoided if folks were intelligent enough to learn from the past.
The more divergent and diverse, the better.
How so?
The incredible robustness of diversity is what allows all biological processes to move, to prevail.
How so?

Simply saying something does not make it true.
I think you have to realize that most of us 'foreigners', Ozzies, Canucks, Kiwis, etc, have a slightly different background than you folks in the US of A.
The USA also has the reputation of being the best country in the world. (whether or not that is true is debatable, but more people are wanting in than wanting out) Maybe the folks in other countries should seek to learn from Americans, and should aspire to achieving that better lifestyle.
We don't grind as hard against the spending of tax dollars, although we don't much like it.
Well, when less taxes raises your standard of living....I guess some folks must enjoy a lower standard of living.
If it's Bee Research, better that than a new sculpture in downtown Calgary.
You're trying to rationalize bad behavior. Wrong is wrong, and we shouldn't approve of bad behavior even when it might benefit us, because it also hurts someone else.
Let's get back to talking bees on this forum, and not politics.
Only a fool would ignore the reality that politics has more impact on beekeeping than just about anything else. We should be talking MORE about politics, and stupid political stuff that affects bees.

Have you tried to buy a package of cheap bees from here in the US lately? Have you thought about moving your hives to pollinate the almonds in California in February...they were only paying about $190 a hive this year. Have you thought about overwintering your hives in Florida or Texas?
B. Farmer Honey
Central Ohio

User avatar
NKsBees
Posts: 2
Joined: May 27th, 2017, 8:51 am
Location: Washington State, USA

Re: How do you run your hives?

Unread post by NKsBees » July 17th, 2017, 5:23 pm

Countryboy wrote:
July 8th, 2017, 5:33 am

The Holy Bible teaches that voluntary charity and helping others is good, but those who beg for money are always portrayed as being evil and sinful.
Not that this is in ANY way relevant to the topic, but you're wrong...
At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
Luke 16:20-23
Always is a strong word.

Maybe your Bible reads differently?

User avatar
Countryboy
Forum Regular
Posts: 511
Joined: November 8th, 2010, 9:37 pm
Location: Central Ohio
Contact:

Re: Politics and Beekeeping

Unread post by Countryboy » July 25th, 2017, 8:14 pm

Some translations say that Lazarus was poor, and some say he was a beggar.

Longing to eat the leftover scraps that were thrown away as garbage/waste and begging for money are not the same thing. I'm not sure how you are jumping to that conclusion. Longing is simply desiring, without any action. I can desire/long to date a supermodel...that's a lot different than begging the girl and being a nuisance.

If you read a few verses past what you quoted, you will also notice that it says that Lazarus had a lot of evil in his life while he was here on earth, which only reinforces my point about begging for money being portrayed as evil if you consider Lazarus a beggar.

I've read the canonized Bible more than once, and I have read some of the Apocryphal writings. I have yet to find any instance where begging is ever considered good.
B. Farmer Honey
Central Ohio

Post Reply